This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add. 6 J& N l l" o5 B5 I5 n+ ]0 q
" W! o5 ?/ o$ G& q8 F2 g% bHe started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a
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3 u; a$ }& w4 v! U9 D1 ?cmm talk about programming one. , Z( y- K5 q- A4 i' y0 c2 f9 V
" }' a! u. ^! q: x" m$ jI've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.
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+ O' C9 r) N" }, Q' DMaybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like
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% ]0 N* l& `/ Yyou...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so
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that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works 8 \0 D0 T3 a8 g$ B7 E) ^& h$ I& Q
2 [" n& w5 H; X( ffor. 9 o! x$ r! ?- f( w& z4 L) E, [
( f. Y7 z2 v6 QThe only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so
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that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly 4 X6 m2 t' ]4 D1 ]7 J
" ]& v$ v9 b2 m1 opray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on. 2 h K+ D' c: C% i0 ~' Q+ G
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這一個人基本上沒有經驗，而你們正在免費通過互聯網完整培訓他，我可能稍微增加點難度。
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他從自己校正他的機器的各種非常愚蠢的主意開始，現在我們容易看出他一個甚至不能正確操作cmm的人。
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5 |1 ~; n# l0 F2 p& u- ~& Z我做出犧牲,閱讀一堆章節并被他開始問各種荒謬最基本的cmm 觀念。
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可能我應該更加接納他剛進來就說:我基本對cmm了解為零,但是我成為你那樣...你能幫助我嗎?我從那里開始?但是我發現自己不停的被問的吃驚.我完全理解,當我得到這個故事必
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4 P" c9 R8 \( t$ m然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即將發生倒閉
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我看他服務的公司最后的結果是財務破產作為他'程序'的一部分他們計劃調整這部分以便他們在cmm報告中看起來好點.他們把這個給客戶.最多被拒絕或者在使用中完全失敗.當我
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5 e. Q6 k- |& X: }, m讀他那職位的時候,我真誠的起到他不是做方向盤或者轉向制動器,安全帶....這個列表繼續
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. I3 I' u4 y" b5 D+ Q- @I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade. ; M! l% k3 ]( U. P; C
( x; T/ g5 _ Y5 L5 ULet's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.
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Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.
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In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that : X% Q5 ~, n4 k2 f, C+ p
3 d; c4 ?: J d9 [) R" U& Ghe's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE + \' y: P7 \, w5 j. z/ B$ y
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THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!
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Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The 3 t- Q- ~ p! u- M8 O
. v7 E; f5 p, S" u9 @2 h/ ^car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?: H0 `6 T& V+ j
我(象你們中很多人一樣）是一個經過專門培訓對質量吹毛求疵的專業人士。 + d" t: t7 ~. O+ v7 u, J
如果我能找任何的錯誤或的問題任何事，讓我們見到那一個區段已經在他的最后職位中陳述。. N; H/ |$ o0 f- ^; L* a) {, S
不，不能在錯誤中找一些線索。 我將會說，他腦子壞掉了。2 N& Q+ R8 q1 V0 r' q: {7 K5 W
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事實上,我在過去懷疑過很長時間這個家伙是不是真的是一個有經驗的cmm怪人,他僅僅是打亂我們的思路,但是我確認他是一個卓越的人.這是不用討論的,他的情況應該被當作一個0 S$ D0 h% @1 I( ]2 H/ c1 ?- Q7 b
2 `0 D% h* u9 P7 f. C* u優秀的學習案例:為什么鑒定為cmm怪人,就想機器一樣4 y- {5 Q+ Y0 x( f) s# h: `
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類似：如果一輛車輛已經被檢查，登記以及許可，它為什么不是最佳狀態？ 為什么那操作員應該被訓練而且得到許可的？ 小車還好，所有的工作都一樣！ 操作員僅僅是湊湊熱鬧
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，對不對？ 怎么會出錯？; w' q8 I0 D8 V) b
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hi,9 T* q0 J9 z" H; _# B
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people. , O0 L2 \2 M; k( B
GoldenPine1 u2 ^1 W* i0 @8 P: j; Y
! B5 p# O4 H4 E+ a; {7 x B9 y. x嗨，
: [6 o9 |( ]4 H( W+ y# e我認為，你們是從我這郁悶.我真的抱歉。但是還是感激幫助者。 3 B2 O# O% Z# ` T5 S4 J
$ K0 m1 O1 c# E- W+ Z2 zmy machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results + A, m0 i) e3 Z) M
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at the end?
1 @# d& n3 `" _% L- z7 i5 j我的機器測量一個標準環規小了3微米.是不是有選項去手動補償或我不得不在最后把它加入到結果？
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; Z/ }9 F4 {' [3 b: TIs that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?) F& J) X+ j( A0 Q, E
3微米是不是小于名義值，或3微米小于環規的校準結果？7 c% D, Z& a% g! H2 ]8 F6 t
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its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
6 a* x! S6 y" c% V5 I4 K正常。如果已經被標定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 讀數為10.06mm。
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- f; b; a' T: z: S/ [/ b4 |* @10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006. 3 p5 _9 s* ~' R) f/ Q
/ K1 z' {/ F; }+ J0 ]( K, ZPerhaps you meant 10.006?
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* I) E+ @# P; V- I! W, }7 v/ ~# DIs your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the - \6 v O6 `/ `/ x
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stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the
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# h. V5 C) V P0 [0 g, B8 V; \0 Moptimal "attack angle".
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Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the 1 Z* h7 J; K: L0 G. W& C& n
1 I) t7 O( l4 vring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times 1 W. @; G% v! W3 b+ H
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(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If
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it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong. e* F. m7 q9 o& B
F; a! P$ V. u* n ~If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.
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0 p0 g- v1 g( I' s: t$ m10.06是60個微米。六個微米是.006 。 u0 L% ?6 {/ m0 M0 c2 Y4 h1 p+ |# ]! b
0 X8 o3 W' H- ?& ?! |' R4 f可能你認為是10.006?
- [" |5 _/ | q9 n4 B' w. L你的cmm是自動還是手動？ 如果它是手動，我的建議是放棄它同時再買臺真正的cmm 。如果它是自動, 那么確信你有建議一個探針校正程序。 確定在標準球上的測量正確的。 確# y' |" A1 Y3 T4 {& y6 d
0 N3 |, F. l; N: f& L8 Z+ t定點是以正確的位置和最佳的法線角度去接觸標準球.
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一旦你有一個校準測頭的程序,你應該做一些測試.校準探針和檢查環規多次。測量中重新調整環規位置。在測量中你可能想重復調整它但是小心不要影響它的溫度% f1 z1 }, N' E. E6 r8 y
4 _9 O; G0 m7 |1 i然后，重復這整個程序多次（包括重復校準探針） 如果在這里你見到的差異超過.003mm(我預計它會）, 那么你看到的這3個微米是噪音。如果它是超過.03mm, 那么那些地方可能+ W [9 [' E2 V5 H; o2 W8 `1 z
2 P. q3 L1 Q; h有錯誤。 3 U9 v& T; _/ S ?2 ?; D* g V
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如果它處于中間，同時你想更要的效果.如果可能的，試一個較短的測針。
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4 Z& Y! i1 ]' r4 R3 h9 k7 z8 S* IAgreed Ken,
! V( ^7 [8 E3 o4 N% m0 ^; aThe biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I / O. T2 W" G" o1 _: ]
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realise the choice is not always there.
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1 d, {4 X4 Q) E3 \) wI always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder : b2 [) F4 M( g8 F' O) S% R; o4 k
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to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.
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+ O2 q N3 [, q/ QThe other matters to add up are,
/ N3 t) o8 ?& D0 R9 j. Xthe uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
- ~( u/ K+ B$ a# Mthe actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
) g4 P- ?- |5 n8 othe algorithm used for the dia result :
0 J! N: b/ e' H/ g7 Hroom conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :
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Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere. % ^% i1 |7 ]6 r# X) W9 N8 [
同意肯恩，
/ m" g, r. O- {* f8 p3 C2 s# n( a這個方法最好是用最大的球莖和最短的探針長度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20會也減小效果，但是我認為問題并不在那里。 4 f, j: v9 f& f6 }, w5 u* Y
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我總是通過環規的中心設置我的基準面(測量圓柱),雖然這些環規從圓柱到外圓面是非常一致的,單你僅僅是不確
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1 O2 I9 X& z, j其他因素加起來是， + j+ a% g, `* A
機器的測量的不確定： + V- m* @$ H" q' [* ?: g+ ]
環規實際的校準結果（不是被標的值）: - m5 ]5 D( A8 Y9 f: ~ Q+ R+ e
結果圓的運算法則：0 A+ L' `/ n6 |! U0 q1 l4 [
房間環境（臨時濕度） :, [9 S/ ^7 ]: K" i/ B! z9 Q
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9 Y# H& |5 G. T/ L. m. Q- vG.P找到的3微米誤差就在里面,祝你幸運!
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Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right? 3 w6 \6 V. w% E, l: @$ y
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在直徑測量之前有必要定位環規。我已經某處讀我們需要制造 對準直徑測量.是嗎？ , u2 ]; T B' C; Z5 \& g+ K
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/ }9 S' D9 `8 o7 J& u2 ~It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns, 3 I$ q( }, ^2 p9 O6 \/ r f4 C
& a! a+ [- i v6 ?, Sthen use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.
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, K. a, t3 _5 p+ H5 C- @7 n! Z9 D; EThat includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.
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' Q$ \2 }/ t5 S g" j4 GAs a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
* p2 R% L( t- L' F( L- y) U/ y$ {它只是我個人的意見 G.P. ，如果你想嘗試達到3個微米， 6 ]9 g- l2 c6 ?2 H7 @2 B
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使用所有的方法(盡力而為),在測量任意一個點都要垂直于表面。 7 h$ k( P: w5 M8 T4 L) E; O6 A
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那包括在測量直徑之前排校準環規。2 e8 K/ M6 e& _+ ]. i# L( I% [' v* |
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稍微有點好奇，環規校準報告說環規尺寸是所少？ " Y7 y6 a3 T1 N' l& `
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I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.
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我會把它作為一個圓柱來測量。設定我的坐標系為圓柱坐標系同時在環規中逐漸提高測量圓( A$ l. S+ }1 y$ E
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8 f5 _; {& j/ e% \# a7 W! _You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!1 \: R( A) q8 u( w6 `
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What type of machine? Manual or CNC
. q1 [4 y$ A+ X3 _* B: y2 DWhat type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP2009 l7 q& A/ ^7 m+ h5 D8 z
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
$ I" S2 g) C/ D. Z# L& w( nWhat is the temperature in the room?
; q' j( w3 x/ I1 L' R$ y2 Q6 ~7 H' x' cWhat diameter is the ring gauge?
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4 _9 v; z$ P- y; s* [Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5 5 Q/ M8 X' k5 A+ j
' }0 a0 d) t0 c& R4 r+ R8 ppeople breathing heavy it can effect your measurement." L$ t) N4 O$ R: r5 `
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0 J) e+ n) \0 d, m- X! R你試圖測量一個直徑只有3微米的偏差？！
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+ H# [, u& o6 q# B B. W0 k哪類機器？手動或自動* C( s+ ~7 X, z) l
哪類探頭？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200" g. ?) L3 D* B% Z1 y: G
探針長度為多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
/ ?0 E q4 h7 O! I/ z: D5 h房間中，溫度多少？
6 G6 g, i6 z0 _* q& b. ~8 U環規直徑為多少？4 ?5 V7 K- R l( f1 W) [$ j8 H
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讓我們正視它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果機器的附近站立的1個人呼吸 真和明天5個人呼吸都能影響你的測量。 |
樓主: 吟嘯徐行
發表于 2009-3-16 19:15:15
