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標題: 英文三坐標論壇的一點翻譯 [打印本頁]

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-7 20:09
標題: 英文三坐標論壇的一點翻譯
最近慢慢翻譯英文三坐標論壇的帖子,看看外國人特別是北美人如何看待不同的三坐標以及他們的水平,需求

剛開始翻譯,手有點生,主要是意譯.如果寫的不明白還請眾兄弟們見諒

[ 本帖最后由吟嘯徐行于 2009-3-7 20:19 編輯 ]

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-7 20:19
Welcome to CMM Talk
The Cyberspace Community for CMM Professionals
歡迎來到 CMM 論壇
CMM 專業人士的網上交流論壇

View Press Release
主要觀點

About CMM Talk: The premier cyberspace community dedicated to the tens of thousands of CMM Programmers and Professional Users of CMM's in North America.
有關 CMM 論壇：北美最好的論壇,它專注服務于萬名CMM 程序師和專業使用者。

CMM Talk Mission: "To create, manage and maintain a professional independent cyberspace location for the CMM community to visit for enrichment of their own knowledge while passing on their experiences and knowledge to fellow professionals"
CMM 論壇宗旨：創建,管理并維護一個專業,獨立的論壇.通過具有豐富經驗和知識的訪問者在此傳遞交流各自的經驗.

Available Resources:
可用的資源：

The CMM Talk user forum is divided into the following categories:
CMM 論壇分為一下幾個區：

General - The area for all miscellaneous discussions that are not appropriate for the numerous specific forums.
大雜燴－為沒有專門劃分區而提供的一個討論區

Hardware - CMM and Portable - Forums exist for users of the numerous CMM and Portable hardware brands. The intent of this forum is to discuss CMM hardware, service and associated issues and experiences.
硬件－ CMM 和便攜式的－存在很多橋式和便攜式牌子分區。分區將討論 CMM 硬件、服務,與之相關的費用和經驗。

Software - Forums exist for most popular CMM software packages.Forums are intended to exchange ideas, experiences, questions and relevant answers
軟件－這個分區存在主流的CMM 軟件。分區目的為交換主意，經驗，疑問和相關的答案

Sensors - This is the location to exchange probing information, ideas, "tips" etc from Renishaw to Zeiss and others.
測頭－這個分區主要是交流測頭,探針信息等.包括 Renishaw , Zeiss 和其他者。

Fixturing - Forums to discuss and share your part fixturing ideas, experiences, concerns and solutions.
夾具－分區討論并且分享夾具觀點、經驗、疑問和結果

CMM Calibration - The forum to discuss CMM Calibration ideas experiences, concerns and solutions.
CMM 校準－論壇討論 CMM 校準的經驗、疑問和結果。

SPC and GD&T - Forums to share your issues, knowledge and experiences in the areas of SPC and GD&T.
SPC 和 GD＆T －分區分享你在在 SPC 和 GD＆T中的觀點,知識和經驗

Code Samples - The area to share your code solutions with others and to exchange ideas to help improve your applications.
語言規章－分區分享你與其他人的規則解決,同時交換觀點以利于提高應用(主要是關于dmis三坐標語言和vb/c類編程語言)

Operating Systems - The location to discuss various operating system experiences, problems and solutions.
操作系統－討論各種不同的操作系統經驗、問題和解決。

Buy/Sell - Surplus equipment can be listed and specific equipment needs posted.
買／賣－包括出售設備和需求設備

Employment - Job vacancies can be posted along with the resume of CMM professionals seeking employment.
職場天地－企業工作的空缺,和專業人士尋求雇主。

News and Events - Hyperlinks to relevant CMM articles in Magazines, Trade Shows event schedule and other industry relevant links.
新聞－與三坐標相關的雜志,內部信息和其他部門之間的鏈接.

24/7 Chat - Allows instantaneous exchange of ideas and experiences in a simple chat based environment
24/7 談天－即時交換和經驗

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-9 20:17
Life Expectancy of a new PH10M and a refurbished one
新的和修復后的 PH10 M 的平均壽命?

What is it? I replaced my PH10M with a RBE 3 years ago. Now I need to replace it again. What gives?
什么？我 3 年前從 RBE 更換我的 PH10 M 。現在我需要再次更換它。什么原因？

couple factors influence the life expectancy of a PH9/10 probe head.

Crashes, probe indexing frequency and the power being supplied to the controller. I have seen some PH9's last a good 10 years+ and others go 3 years because they get abused. Are you sure it's the probe head that is buggered and not the internal head cable in your machine?

一些因素影響 PH9/ph10 測頭的平均壽命。

撞擊，使用頻率和測量時力度。我曾經見到一些 PH9 正常工作10 多年,而另外一些不足3年因為他們沒有被正確使用你確定它是測頭故障而不是機器內部的電纜？

Yes, it's the head. I took the head off the column, checked all my connections. What was happening, at 90,0, while measuring as point in the -Y direction, the head would unseat. At first I thought it was the TP200 or module. I put in another TP200 and module, and it unseated again at 90,0. This machine has been running roughly 18 hours a day measuring the same part. It has not seen a crash ever (to the best of my knowledge).

Just got an RBE this morning. It now works as it should.

是的，是測頭。我從立柱上拆掉了測頭，檢查我所有的連接。故障狀態是:在 90,0角度時, 在－Y方向測量點的時候，測頭不能抬起。起先，我認為故障的是TP200 或模塊。我換上另外的TP200 和模塊，在 90,0角度時,它同樣不能就位. 這部機器一天大概18小時測量相同的零件。它還不有發生一次的猛烈撞擊。（據我說知）

僅僅是今天早晨換了一個測頭從RBE.它現在正常工作。

[ 本帖最后由吟嘯徐行于 2009-3-9 20:19 編輯 ]

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-9 21:37
從測頭這塊開始翻譯,爭取每天翻譯一點........

I'm looking into the Renishaw SP25. I understand this has good qualities when it comes to scanning. I do a fair amount of scanning. However, I'm not sure about the calibration cycle, and time. I'm referring to the time required to qualify a styli change, and new A-B angles.

I'd like hear from anyone already using the SP25, on any system.

我正在考察 Renishaw SP25 。我知道當掃描的時候它有很好的特征。我要做一定量的掃描。然而，我不能確認校準周期和時間。我指的校準周期是探針值變化和使用新的AB角度。

我想要聽些已經使用 SP25的人意見, 不管任何系統上
。
You might refer to this. It is pretty time consuming. Maybe 10-20 times longer that a traditional trigger probe?? Just a guess on that.
http://pcdmisforum.com/showpost.php?p=19575&postcount=1

你可能會涉及這。時間是相當長。可能一個傳統的接觸測頭的10-20倍長？只是在那上的一個猜測。
http://pcdmisforum.com/showpost.php?p=19575&postcount=1

Yes the calibration of the SP25M is time consuming, about 4 mins per probe due to the fact it repeats the routine twice to determine the scanning probe factors. I am very impressed with the probes accuracy on my Mitutoyo Crysta.

是的 SP25 M 的校準是非常耗費時間的，大約 4 分鐘每一探頭角度,事實上它重復常規的兩次來確定掃描探針.在Mitutoyo Crysta 上其精度給我留下深刻的印象。

I am using SP25M with Mcosmos, the accuracy is very good but the time difference is as previously suggested - 15/20 seconds per probe position touch trigger, 4:30 - 5 mins per position scanning factors.
The scanning times can be changed but the setting used depends on the accuracy req'd

However,I do not find the calibration time a problem as I use the scheduler in the software to run the program lights out during sunday.

The cmm should be verified in accordance with the following spec'n :-

"ISO 10360-4:2000
Acceptance and reverification tests for coordinate measuring machines Part 4: CMMs used in scanning measuring mode"

我正在使用SP25M和Mcosmos(三豐軟件) ，精度非常好，但是時間不同意上面兩位:15/20倍常規接觸測頭,4-5分一個測頭角度。掃描時間是可以改變的，但是使用設定取決于精度

然而，我并沒發現校準時間是一個問題,我使用軟件中的程序直到周末關燈為止。

cmm 應該符合下列的標準
ISO 10360-4:2000
三坐標認可和校驗測試4: CMMs中使用掃描測頭”

With the latest release of the Renishaw scanning calibration DLL, Renishaw have reduced the scanning probe calibration times by 35% Using a calibration speed of 20mm/sec, it is now possible to calibrate and qualify a tip in 2 minutes.
The added benifits of an SP25 are probe lengths of 400mm and the capacity to collect so much more information about the part's shape as well as size.

Renishaw掃描校準最新的新聞鏈接， Renishaw在使用校準速度在20mm／sec的前提下,已經減少校準時間35%,比較可能的是校準同時通過一個角度需要2分鐘
SP25 的附加桿最大為400 毫米和更多的能力收集零件外形。

決定性的
If you are worried about the time it takes to calibrate the probes the easiest thing to do is generate a probe cal routine in MCOSMOS and run on the weekend. It's easy!

如果你擔憂校準測頭的時間,最簡單的就是在周末在MCOSMOS中調用測頭并運行.非常容易！

作者: 國際化 時間: 2009-3-9 22:49
兄弟辛苦了，和你不一樣，我喜歡去http://www.practicalmachinist.co ... 6413&i=66568274

作者: 明天更好 時間: 2009-3-10 18:56
前輩，辛苦了~

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-11 23:18
does probe ball dia affects the measurent?because i have a probe with 2 mm dia and its giving 3 microns error but as i use the 6 mm ball dia probe , the error goes to 10 microns (its stem length is also bigger than the previous probe).
billabong
標準球直徑是否影響測量？因為我用2毫米直徑產生了3微米誤差.但是當我使用6毫米球形直徑探針，誤差達到了10個微米。（探針長度比先前大)

Some things to consider here.
Every probe ball ( stylus ) has some slight deviation from the nominal size.
There is also some pre-travel before the touch trigger probe sends the signal to the controller. How much depends on which touch trigger probe you have (

Renishaw TP2 , TP 20 , TP200 etc ).
As long as you are calibrating them against a CALIBRATED masterball ,
AND you have input the CALIBRATED masterball result ( from the certificate )
into your measuring software, you should not have to worry about a difference
of 7 microns between styli.
Remembering your attempts to calibrate the whole machine with gauge blocks,
I'd be surprised if you have the masterball calibrated. If you do, I stand corrected.

在這里需要考慮部分因素
每個實際探針與理論值都有一些微小的偏離。
探針將觸發信號送到控制器之前，也有一些預行程。行程的多少取決于你使用的測頭.（Renishaw TP2,TP20,TP200 及其他）
只要你用標準器標準球來校正他們，
輸入標準球的值（從證書）
打開你的測量軟件，你沒必要擔憂探針偏差7個微米。
記得嘗試用標準度塊校正整個的機器，
如果你校正標準球,我將會感到驚訝。如果你做了，我認錯。

You need to get the basics of your machine correct 1st before questioning
any error or any accuracy issues you have.
詢問之前你需要第一時間得到你的機器的偏差
無論任何錯誤或任何精度偏差。

Yes! the diameter of the tip ball gives an error which is known as "cosine error" see attached file.
I don't know what you are measuring but if you check a gauge block with tip dia. 2/6 it should NOT give you that difference in error!
Click here for Tip_points.pdf

是的,探針標準球給出一個誤差以"cosine error "
我不知道你是怎么測量的，但是如果你用探針檢查一個量塊.但它不能給你偏差的不同！
點擊這 Tip_points.pdf

If you're trying to check a 3D cone as a 2D dia at a certain Z level then, yes probe diameter will affect accuracy.
If you're look at roundness of a known round item, say a ring gage, then the size of the tip doesn't matter except that larger diameters tend to not be as round as smaller diameters but this is generally a relatively small difference.
The biggest thing that affects accuracy/repeatability/tri-lobing is the length of the stylus. It's much more complicated but generally speaking, if a 1" long stylus results in .0003 of tri-lobing, a 2" long stylus will be around .0006. The same basic concept applies to articulating probe heads. The longer the distance from the fulcrum to the prope tip, the more variance you will have when indexing the probe head. There are many other factors involved but the probe
length is by far the largest contributor. That is, assuming that cleanliness is under control.

如果你嘗試在其中特定z值平面內用一個2維測頭測量一個3D立體圓錐體.那么探針直徑將會影響精度。
如果你是檢查已知項目的圓，例如環規，那么與探針的大小是沒有關系的.除了一點小的不同,結果中較大的直徑不容易像較小的直徑一樣的圓。
對精度/重復度/偏差影響的最大的是探針的長度.這是更多復雜的,但一般來說，如果這 1" 長的探針誤差為.0003偏差, 2" 長的探針將會是.0006 左右. 相同道理適用于關節臂測頭。從支點到探針頂端的距離越長，你標定的測頭偏差越多。還牽涉許多其他的因素，但是探針長度是顯然最大的因素。如果其他因素可控的話

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-11 23:22
未完待續

回國際化:發展方向不同嘛,你所看論壇人氣明顯還是比較旺的

作者: finleyfeng 時間: 2009-3-13 21:07
學英文又能長知識不錯

作者: 國際化 時間: 2009-3-13 22:21

未完待續( v; ~0 \: F7 v0 C) _
5 N& f9 j7 J4 b
回國際化:發展方向不同嘛,你所看論壇人氣明顯還是比較旺的. v b$ o0 X w/ U1 \/ {
吟嘯徐行發表于 2009-3-11 23:22

上次，他們請我寫一份意見建議，我把這個網址(中國機械社區0提交給他們，讓美國人看看我們的論壇是多么的強大

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-15 17:36
本帖最后由吟嘯徐行于 2009-3-15 17:41 編輯

. . and of course that the masterball is
calibrated, with the calibration result
used in the software
Is it calibrated Golden Pine ?.

而且當然標準球是校正過的，校準結果已經在軟件中用了。

Ofcourse yes.The master ball has dia of 20mm but i have input its value in the software according to the certificate that is 20.002mm.I think i am right.am i?i am measuring ring gage dia with the probe of length more than 3 inches with ball dia 6 mm.In small ring gages , the difference in dias are less but a i move to bigger gages , the difference goes to 10 microns.why its varying gage to gage of different sizes?
Anotehr thing when i auto calibrated this probe , the software has calculated its dia as 5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787 against 6mm .why the measured dia is so small.i think this thing is introducing error in my readings from this probe?Any suggestions plz.
當然。標準球為20毫米，但是根據證書我在軟件中輸入它數值為20.002 毫米。我自認為是對的.對嗎？我用一根長度超過 3 英寸球直徑為6毫米的探針測量環規.在小的環規中，直徑誤差很小.但是一旦我換成一個大點的環規,偏差能達到10個微米.為什么不同環規之間有差異.
另外，當我自動校準測頭的時候,對于6豪米探針軟件校準直徑值為5.661,5.471,5.767,5.787。為什么測量直徑如此小,我猜是不是從測頭中引入的誤差到測量結果中.那位能給點建議

Are you sure the ring gages are round?
You can verify by printing out a plot of the roundness then rotating the ring gage and running again. If the shape of the plot rotates with the ring gage
then the ring gage is out of round.

If you can get 6 microns with a 3" long probe, you're doing pretty darn good.

你確定環規是是圓的嗎？
你可以通過打印出一個標準圓然后旋轉環規。如果環規外形超出繪制的圓，那么環規已經不圓了。
如果你能用一個3" 探針僅偏差6個微米，你做的已經非常好了

Actually, I may have misunderstood.

When you say 10 microns, you mean the difference between the actual ring gage diameter and the diameter the cmm measures the ring gage?
This is basically due to the fact that the probe is calibrated on a 3d sphere and is averaged out based on that. If you are more concerned about 2d
calibration, the best way to go is to measure a calibrated ring gage and manually adjust the diameter of the probe to make the ring gage dia check correctly.

Assuming that the software you are running allows you to do that. Unless the software will allow you to calibrate based on a 2d measurement, that would be

easier.

Also, if you do this, you can monitor the roundness readings which can detect problems with the probe system or stylus. Stylus wear, dirt, probe module wear,

實際上，我可能已經誤解。

當你說 10個微米的時候，你的偏差意思是實際的環規直徑和cmm 測量環規直徑？
本質上由于探針值是基于在一個3D球體上被校正并平均得出。如果你更關心2d校準,最好辦法為測量一個標準的環規,手動調整探針的直徑確保環規測量值正確。如果你運行的軟件
允許你這樣做。除非軟件將會允許你校正基于2d測量，那樣的話就要比較容易了。
同時, 如果你這樣做，你們檢查下影響圓度因為能發現測頭系統或探針:探針磨損,污垢，測頭模塊磨損等等

my software donot allow to compensate the probr dia manually.wat can i do now?
我的軟件還不允許手動補償探針直徑.我現在怎么辦？

Hi G.P.,

How many points are you taking on the ring gauge ?
Are you setting up the main datum as a cylinder through the gauge, or a plane on top of the gauge ?
What algorithm are you using to calculate the dia ?

嗨 G.P.，
你測量環規打了多少點？
你有沒有建議一個圓柱坐標系通過環規或者在環規表面建議一個基準面
你使用什么運算法則來教轉探針直徑？(指外接圓法,內接圓法,和最小二乘法等等)

GoldenPine. Don't worry about the probe calibrating smaller than its real diameter, that's normal and understandable. What you do need to worry about is the variation of the "calibrated" diameters of your probe stylus which are HUGE. I've just checked the two 6mm probe on my machine and the variations are from 5.987 - 5.991 for 14 probe orientations (swivel length 93mm) and 5.913-5.922 for 17 orientations (swivel length 138mm). I avoid using the 138mm length probe
unless I absolutely have to and it hasn't been cleaned for a while!

I think you need to get your CMM serviced and calibrated or you are, frankly, wasting your time.

GoldenPine。不要擔心探針校值小于其真實值，那是正常的和可以理解的。你需要關注的是你的探針" 校正 " 后的直徑的大小。
我剛剛用兩個6毫米探針在我的機器實驗了下:從5.987- 5.991為14校正方向（旋轉半徑 93 毫米）和17方向（旋轉半徑138毫米）5.913-5.922.
我盡量不使用那138毫米探針,除非我唯一適用和它不能被排除
我認為你應該聯系CMM服務工程師來校正或者你來做，坦白地，現在你在浪費時間。

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-15 17:43
未完待續

回國際化:估計老美沒有幾個人認識中文,啥時候幫他們也翻譯下,

作者: finleyfeng 時間: 2009-3-16 19:15
看完了頂一下

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-17 23:04
This guy basically has no experience, and you guys are completely training him over the internet for free, and somewhat awkwardly I might add.

He started out with all kinds of monumentally stupid ideas about calibrating his machine himself, now we can easily see that he can't even properly operate a

cmm talk about programming one.

I've sat buy and read a dozen threads started by him asking about ridiculously basic cmm concepts.

Maybe I would be more receptive if he came in here from the start and said "hey guys, I know absolutely zero about cmm's, but I want to be just like

you...can you help me? Where do I start?" But instead I find myself continually astounded by the questions he is asking. It is so compelling to read just so

that I understand it fully when I get to the inevitable end of this story involving a major rejection and impending bankruptcy of some poor company he works

for.

The only possible outcome I can see is the company he works for ending up in financial ruins as he "programs" a part and their setup adjusts the parts so

that they "look good" on the cmm reports and they ship parts to customers, ultimately destined for rejection or worse failure during operation. I honestly

pray when I read his posts that he doesn't make something like steering or braking components, seat belt retractors.....the list goes on and on.

這一個人基本上沒有經驗，而你們正在免費通過互聯網完整培訓他，我可能稍微增加點難度。

他從自己校正他的機器的各種非常愚蠢的主意開始，現在我們容易看出他一個甚至不能正確操作cmm的人。

我做出犧牲,閱讀一堆章節并被他開始問各種荒謬最基本的cmm 觀念。

可能我應該更加接納他剛進來就說:我基本對cmm了解為零,但是我成為你那樣...你能幫助我嗎?我從那里開始?但是我發現自己不停的被問的吃驚.我完全理解,當我得到這個故事必

然的包括他工作的公司必然是非常容易被淘汰和即將發生倒閉

我看他服務的公司最后的結果是財務破產作為他'程序'的一部分他們計劃調整這部分以便他們在cmm報告中看起來好點.他們把這個給客戶.最多被拒絕或者在使用中完全失敗.當我

讀他那職位的時候,我真誠的起到他不是做方向盤或者轉向制動器,安全帶....這個列表繼續

I (like many of you) am a professional fault-finder by trade.

Let's see if I can find any errors or problems with anything that Section has stated in his last post.

Nope, can't find a single thing in error. I'd say that he's hit the nail squarely on the head.

In fact, I've wondered several times in the past if this guy was really an experienced CMM geek who's just messin' with our heads, but I'm convinced that

he's on the level, which is quite disturbing. His situation could be used as an excellent case study about why CMM geeks should ALL be certified - JUST LIKE

THE MACHINES HAVE TO BE!!!!

Analogy time: Why shouldn't it be good enough if a VEHICLE is inspected, registered and licensed? Why should the OPERATOR have be trained and licensed? The

car's just fine, and that's the thing that does all the work! The operator just goes along for the ride, right? What could possibly go wrong?
我(象你們中很多人一樣）是一個經過專門培訓對質量吹毛求疵的專業人士。
如果我能找任何的錯誤或的問題任何事，讓我們見到那一個區段已經在他的最后職位中陳述。
不，不能在錯誤中找一些線索。我將會說，他腦子壞掉了。

事實上,我在過去懷疑過很長時間這個家伙是不是真的是一個有經驗的cmm怪人,他僅僅是打亂我們的思路,但是我確認他是一個卓越的人.這是不用討論的,他的情況應該被當作一個

優秀的學習案例:為什么鑒定為cmm怪人,就想機器一樣

類似：如果一輛車輛已經被檢查，登記以及許可，它為什么不是最佳狀態？為什么那操作員應該被訓練而且得到許可的？小車還好，所有的工作都一樣！操作員僅僅是湊湊熱鬧

，對不對？怎么會出錯？

hi,
i think you guys are fedup from me.i am really sorry for that.But appreciate the co-operation of you people.
GoldenPine

嗨，
我認為，你們是從我這郁悶.我真的抱歉。但是還是感激幫助者。

my machine is measuring a standard ring gage 3 microns less.is there any option in the metrolog to compensate it manually or i have to add up in the results

at the end?
我的機器測量一個標準環規小了3微米.是不是有選項去手動補償或我不得不在最后把它加入到結果？

Is that 3um less than nominal, or 3um less than the calibrated result for the gauge ?
3微米是不是小于名義值，或3微米小于環規的校準結果？

its the nominal.As its has been engrved on the standard for example 10 mm (+9 microns).cmm is reading it as 10.06 mm.
正常。如果已經被標定例如10mm（+9mm）。那么cmm 讀數為10.06mm。

10.06 is plus sixty microns. Six microns is .006.

Perhaps you meant 10.006?

Is your cmm nc or manual? If it's manual, my advice would be to give up and buy a real cmm. If it's nc then make sure you have a program to calibrate the

stylus. Make sure the measurements on the masterball are taken properly. Make sure the points are properly spaced and contacting the masterball at the

optimal "attack angle".

Once you have a program for probe calibration then you should do some testing. Calibrate the stylus and inspect the ring gage several times. Re-position the

ring gage between runs. You may want to re-clean it between runs but be careful not to affect the temperature. Then, repeat this whole process several times

(including re-calibrating the stylus). If the variance you see here is more than .003mm (i expect it will be), then the 3 microns you are seeing is noise. If

it's more than .03mm then there's probably something wrong.

If it's somewhere in between and you need better, if possible, try a shorter stylus.

10.06是60個微米。六個微米是.006 。

可能你認為是10.006?
你的cmm是自動還是手動？如果它是手動，我的建議是放棄它同時再買臺真正的cmm 。如果它是自動, 那么確信你有建議一個探針校正程序。確定在標準球上的測量正確的。確

定點是以正確的位置和最佳的法線角度去接觸標準球.

一旦你有一個校準測頭的程序,你應該做一些測試.校準探針和檢查環規多次。測量中重新調整環規位置。在測量中你可能想重復調整它但是小心不要影響它的溫度

然后，重復這整個程序多次（包括重復校準探針）如果在這里你見到的差異超過.003mm(我預計它會）, 那么你看到的這3個微米是噪音。如果它是超過.03mm, 那么那些地方可能

有錯誤。

如果它處于中間，同時你想更要的效果.如果可能的，試一個較短的測針。

Agreed Ken,
The biggest ball dia with the shortest shank length is always the way to go. A TP200 instead of a TP2 or 20 would reduce the lobing effect also, but I

realise the choice is not always there.

I always set my alignment plane through the centerline of the ring ( cylinder measurement ) as , although these gauges are usually square from the cylinder

to the outer surfaces, you just never know for sure.

The other matters to add up are,
the uncertainty of measurement of the machine :
the actual calibration result for the ring gauge ( not the engraved size ):
the algorithm used for the dia result :
room conditions ( temp humidity cleanliness ) :

Good luck G.P. in finding your 3 microns. They're in there somewhere.
同意肯恩，
這個方法最好是用最大的球莖和最短的探針長度。用TP200代替TP2或tp20會也減小效果，但是我認為問題并不在那里。

我總是通過環規的中心設置我的基準面(測量圓柱),雖然這些環規從圓柱到外圓面是非常一致的,單你僅僅是不確

其他因素加起來是，
機器的測量的不確定：
環規實際的校準結果（不是被標的值）:
結果圓的運算法則：
房間環境（臨時濕度） :

G.P找到的3微米誤差就在里面,祝你幸運!

Is it necessary to align a ring gage beofre the dia measurement.I have read somewhere that we dun need to make alignment for dia measurements.is it right?

在直徑測量之前有必要定位環規。我已經某處讀我們需要制造對準直徑測量.是嗎？

It's only my opinion G.P. , but if your trying to find your 3 microns,

then use all means at your disposal to measure each point perpendicular to the surface.

That includes aligning the ring gauge before measuring for dia.

As a matter of interest, what size does the calibration certificate say the ring gauge is ?
它只是我個人的意見 G.P. ，如果你想嘗試達到3個微米，

使用所有的方法(盡力而為),在測量任意一個點都要垂直于表面。

那包括在測量直徑之前排校準環規。

稍微有點好奇，環規校準報告說環規尺寸是所少？

I would measure it as a cylinder. Set my coordinate to that cyl. & measure circles incrementally in the ring gage.

我會把它作為一個圓柱來測量。設定我的坐標系為圓柱坐標系同時在環規中逐漸提高測量圓

You are chasing 3um error in a diameter measurement?!

What type of machine? Manual or CNC
What type of touch probe? TP20, TP2, SP25, TP200
What length is the stylus? 10mm 20mm 100mm
What is the temperature in the room?
What diameter is the ring gauge?

Let's face it... 3um (0.003) is not a significant error, if you have 1 person standing near the machine breathing really heavy and the next day there are 5

people breathing heavy it can effect your measurement.

你試圖測量一個直徑只有3微米的偏差？！

哪類機器？手動或自動
哪類探頭？TP20,TP2,SP25, TP200
探針長度為多少？ 20 毫米 10 毫米 100 毫米
房間中，溫度多少？
環規直徑為多少？

讓我們正視它。3 um（0.003) 并不重要，如果機器的附近站立的1個人呼吸真和明天5個人呼吸都能影響你的測量。

作者: 國際化 時間: 2009-3-18 21:45

未完待續
0 S" i! W/ I8 d$ y2 B: E: G" Q p
: M, K6 o* B0 U: K) ?7 M' w回國際化:估計老美沒有幾個人認識中文,啥時候幫他們也翻譯下,2 Z( \1 C' I8 x
吟嘯徐行發表于 2009-3-15 17:43

我當然是用英語告訴他們這里是中國最好的機械論壇之一

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-18 21:53
回國際化:我當然知道你是英文告訴他們這個論壇好,但是他們最多也就在這邊瞄一眼,機械社區的內容估計老外能看懂的不多

作者: 胡雷 時間: 2009-3-19 21:35
辛苦版主翻譯的東東很實用

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-20 11:35
想知道國外三坐標有多少種軟件嗎？呵呵，這個估計是歐美比較常用的
http://www.prolinksoftware.com/product_calc_machine.aspx

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-3-23 08:07
Renishaw styli tip cleaning for probe calibration
為探針校準,清潔Renishaw探針紅寶石球

Obviously before probe calibration, the cal sphere and Styli should be clean and free from debree, which would effect the results of the calibration.
When i first joined my company a simple wipe with the fingers or peice of rag had sufficed.
However I noticed while inpecting the styli under a microscope, the ruby styli was littered with debree such as small peices of aluminium, cast iron, small hairs etc.
Because of this I started to clean the styli and cal sphere with solvent based liquids such as Geneclean, SBP2 & currently Amberklene.
Any thoughts on my process, is a solvent likley to have a detremental effect on the ruby,any alternatives, what do you do at your company?

顯然在探針校準前,標準球和探針應該被清潔，灰塵有可能導致校準結果的偏差。
當我剛加入公司的時候,只是簡單的用手或者碎布擦拭就可以了。
但當我在顯微鏡下觀察探針時，紅寶石探針沾滿灰塵,例如微小的鋁屑,鑄鐵屑，頭發屑等等
以此我開始用液體溶劑清潔標探針和標準球,SBP2或Amberklene。
在我的理解中，溶劑有可能對紅寶石產生不良效果，有沒有其他選擇,你的公司怎么做的啊？

I generally use a lens cleaning cloth or one of the cloths supplied for cleaning Gauge block sets, although I tend to keep the cloths bespoke for each use ( one for styli only etc ).
我通常使用鏡頭清潔布或者量塊清潔布，盡管我傾向為每個提高一份清潔布。（為探針專門準備一個)

I use denatured alcohol & Kimwipes EX-L delicate task wipers (Kimberly Clark). FYI - They are made in Roswell
我使用工業酒精或者Kimwipes EX-L精致手帕紙. （Kimberly Clark） FYI －格魯吉亞制造。

Use alcahol and a lint-free cloth... (Renishaw Tech)
Do not use solvents such as acetone etc...
使用酒精和沒有棉絮的布。（Renishaw 技術）
不要使用溶劑，例如丙酮等

作者: liguangfei 時間: 2009-4-6 20:06
嘎嘎，你就把這些對話打包好了哇，，，，

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-4-12 10:49
Can I convert points of a plane into individual points

我能從多點組成的面中分離出單獨的點嗎?

I'm sorry, I have not played around to find out for myself due to work load but, I have a disc with 20 pockets, each pocket has 3 recesses. I need to check

the "Z" distance between 2 planes and since I need to referance / align each plane later in the PPG, it would be much easier to pull 1, 5 points out from the

plane and call it an individual point to get my "Z" distance. I can not due a loop due to each point and plane needs a seperate name and for the scientists

to be able to figure out the CMM output easily and at the bottom of each pocket I take 25 pt's so tghey can determin contour of each pocket.

對不起，我不是為了好玩而是真的工作需要，我有一個圓盤工件,上面分布20個輪廓，每個輪廓有3個凸行。我需要檢查兩個面之間的z軸距離.在工件坐標系中需要整理每一個面，
這將很容易將 1, 5 點分離出,同時調出一個單獨的點坐標就可以得到我的z軸距離.我不能得到一個循環是因為每一個點和面都需要一個獨立的名字.為了cmm更容易的輸出科學的計

算值.在每個孔的地步我取了25個點以描述每個圓輪廓

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
why don't you measure as points, then you can connect the sets of points together as planes, but you will still have the points to do any further analysis

with

為什么你不測量點要素，然后你可以將點云組合成平面，同時你依然擁有點要素做進一步的分析

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the input, I've done that before but just thought I could grab a point of a plane rather than having to manually take my plane points.

謝謝回復，我已經那樣做了, 但是我想能不能從平面上抓一點,而不是想手動的測量平面點.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you have measured the plane(s) as auto planes, then you can get hold of the individual measured points using the formula calculation tokens
- for example 'PL[1].MP[1].X' would return the value in X of the first point in plane memory 1. So you could just process a simple loop after the measurement

of each plane to grab hold of the X,Y & Z vals of each point and transfer them into individual element points.
Be aware that the points are uncompensated. I have attempted to attach the example prog (.CAB and ._PI files) which you can import from the part manager
Click here for plane points._PI

如果你已經測量平面為自動平面，那么你能得到一個單獨的點通過變量計算
－舉例來說 'PL[1].MP[1].X'將會返回平面第一個點的x軸坐標值. 因此你僅僅需要做一個簡單的循環從每一個面的測量結果中分離出它每一個點的xyz坐標值.然后把他們組合成

一個個單獨的點要素

注意，這些點是沒有探針補償。我已經嘗試附上一個程序例子(.CAB and ._PI files),你可以從程序入口導入
點擊這里為了平面點。＿PI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
flyfish - send me your email and I will send the program to you
flyfish －把你的電子郵件發給我和我把程序發給你

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When you grab the points in formula calculation, you should be able to
also deduct the probe radius result to equate to a compensaed point.

Obviously only if you probed perpendicular to the surface. . . I think .

當你抓取測量點的時候，你同樣能夠到也減去探針半徑值得到一個無補償點。

當然如果你的探針運動軌跡垂直與工件表面... 我個人看法。

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-4-12 10:53
先亂帖吧,等最后整理下,然后再附加上個人觀點可能會更好點

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2009-4-12 19:24
翻譯溫澤英文網站上,三坐標發展歷史
-------------------------------------------------------
istory of CMM
三坐標的歷史
The Coordinate Measuring Machine first appeared in the early 60's and the Coordinate-Measuring-Machine industry was immediately born. The earliest Coordinate Measuring Machine was a 3D devices with a simple DRO displaying the XYZ position of the X Y Z Machine.
三坐標測量機最早誕生于60年代,同時測量機工業也馬上誕生.最早的三坐標測量機是一個有著三軸驅動和簡單命令顯示xyz坐標值的機器

There has been much dispute over the years concerning the original inventor of the Co-ordinate Measuring Machine, which has been abbreviated to CMM or CMM's over the years; the nomenclature CMM Machine has now become the industry standard term for 3D Measuring Machines. The first CMM Devices were probably introduced by the Italian company DEA (Digital Electronic Automation Spa) which introduced a Portal Frame CMM with Hard Probe, shortly after Ferranti Metrology from Scotland introduced its Cantilever CMM with D R O and Fixed Probes. DEA introduced their C.M.M. just a few months prior to Ferranti. Ferranti (now International Metrology Systems or IMS ) probably introduced the first DCC CMM (Direct Computer Assist) while DEA claim to have introduced the first CNC CMM. LK Tool, also from the UK have long claimed to produce the first Bridge CMM that has become the standard configuration for CMM Machines in past years. Cantilever CMM, Bridge CMM, Gantry CMM, Horizontal Arm CMM, Portal CMM, Moving Table CMM, Fixed Bridge CMM and Articulated Arm CMM have all become other common configurations for CMMs. The C.M.M. industry today produces over 6000 CMMs annually; C.M.M's come either as a Manual CMM where the CMM Operator manually guides the ManualCMM around the part to undertake CMM Inspection or as a CNC CMM where the CMM is driven automatically from the CMM Part Program.
關于三坐標的發明者現在有很多的爭論.三坐標已經被縮寫到 CMM 或CMM's已經有些年頭了.這個命名為cmm的機械已經成為工業上3d測量的標準.第一個三坐標設備可能是意大利的DEA(Digital Electronic Automation Spa 數顯電子自動設備)公司生產.因為它生產一個擁有硬測頭的龍門式三坐標.不久 Ferranti (now International Metrology Systems or IMS 現在的國際計量系統公司IMS)可能生產了第一臺顯示式三坐標(計算機協助)同時DEA公司聲稱生產了第一臺自動懸臂式三坐標.英國的LK公司很早就聲稱身產了第一臺橋式三坐標.在過去的一段時間里,橋式三坐標變成了標準三坐標的結構.懸臂式,橋式,臺架式,水平臂式.接口三坐標,臺面移動三坐標,固定橋式三坐標和關機式三坐標已經全部變成通用三坐標結構.三坐標行業每年生產超過6000臺；分為手動三坐標,操作員用手動測量檢驗或者自動三坐標,根據三坐標程序自動驅動運行. C.M.M。
Each industrialized country of the world has created a domestic CMM Industry. The largest proliferation of CMM Companies have come from the UK. Ferranti Metrology started the UK CMM Industry and licensed their technology to Bendix Corporation in the U.S after a short period where Bendix acted as CMM Sales Agents in the US for the Ferranti CMM. Bendix CMM became the dominant CMM Supplier with its Cordax CMM during the 60's and 70' later becoming known as the Sheffield CMM or Sheffield Company. The Cordax CMM was primarily a Cantilever Style Manual CMM with Hard Probes migrating to Touch Probes from Renishaw as the technology became available. DCC CMMs from Cordax and Sheffield also became popular as computers entered the field of CMM Metrology.
世界上每一個工業化工業都產生了本國的三坐標設備廠,最大的拓展的公司來自英國. Ferranti開始生產英國三坐標設備,同時授權他們技術到美國Bendix公司.短期內Bendix公司就作為美國一家Ferranti三坐標銷售代理公司.在60年代到70年代末Bendix公司變成了一個優勢的三坐標供應商.其產品為Corda三坐標.Bendix公司就是后來知名的Sheffield公司Cordax CMM是首先將采用從Renishaw公司采購的垂直硬探針的三坐標成為現實,Cordax and Sheffield同樣將計算機作為顯示設備引入三坐標技術
IMS machines include the Impact CMM, Merlin CMM, and the Umpire CMM a flexible shop-floor gage. LK CMMs are the G80 CMM, G90 CMM, G80C CMM, G90C CMM and use LK DMIS or Cameo CMM software.
IMS 機器包括以下型號:Impact CMM, Merlin CMM和Umpire CMM (一個有柔性的空間測量)。LK CMMs系列是G80,G90,G80C,G90C和使用 LK DMIS 或Cameo三坐標軟件。

作者: 切雷克2008 時間: 2009-4-17 18:55
支持樓上！

作者: 向_南 時間: 2009-5-17 19:35
很不錯的加了六平臺，希望大家繼續努力啊我想加入你們學習

作者: 三坐標初學者 時間: 2010-1-2 22:45
學英文，又長見識

作者: 吟嘯徐行 時間: 2010-1-7 15:26
過了年后，會逐漸開始進行新的翻譯

作者: ahu813 時間: 2011-7-19 21:15
前輩，辛苦了~

作者: dong_huike 時間: 2012-11-18 14:32
不錯！
感謝提供；

作者: 熊anh 時間: 2013-1-6 12:17
國內現在絕大多數人對三坐標測量的認識就是用來判斷零件是否合格，很多廠家對三坐標人員的要求就是一個：操作熟練。真覺得是沒治了

作者: 號碼容易忘記 時間: 2014-2-19 16:53
用的是英國LK，麻煩死了，英文不好也是大問題

作者: 趙辛楣 時間: 2015-10-13 20:38
能夠翻譯的，就可見英文底子了

作者: 陳云奇哥 時間: 2015-10-18 13:16
用別國的機床就是要學英文啊

作者: JXTTTTT 時間: 2018-7-25 07:53
我又來賺威望啦！！

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